Savannah Star: Hi!
Gcheung28: I'm glad to see you all are joining for the 2nd discussion. How's everyone doing?
Savannah Star: I'm great. You?
Gcheung28: Helloo haha
LavendaBrunette: Sorry, I'm so easily distracted today,
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Which chapters were for this discussion today? It's okay, Kelly.
Gcheung28 Chapters 17-28! pretty exciting middle of the book
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, cool!
Savannah Star: Book 2 was great, imo.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^ Agreed.
Savannah Star: I loved the entire novel, tbh.
Gcheung28: it was soo good
Savannah Star: It has a little bit of everything for everyone: Bella/Edward romance for those who like it. Jacob's POV for Team Jacob.
Gcheung28: yup yup! im excited to discuss it with you guys1
Gcheung28: Ok so let's start with the first question!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I adored the book right when Irina saw Renesmee. Okay.
Savannah Star: Okay!
Gcheung28: What did you think about Jacob's decision to bring Charlie to the Cullens after Bella's transformation? What about when he phased in front of him? Should Jacob have done things differently?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I LOVED that part, oh my gosh.
Gcheung28: I really thought that Charlie needed to know!
Savannah Star: Same.
Gcheung28: I was so sad that he was being kept in the dark about the whole thing
Savannah Star: He was in the dark for the majority of the series.
Gcheung28: because he thought Bella was just really sick the whole time she was pregnant
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And I thought bringing Charlie to the Cullens' place was a good idea because he was so out of the loop. I mean, according to the Cullens, the last time he saw Bella, she was sick.
Gcheung28: Yup! And the Cullens also gave him a fake number right?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Jake phasing in front of Charlie was unnecessary, though. It only told him, like, half of the entire truth. I think so.
Gcheung28: So he literally was given nothing and had no idea if his daughter was alright
Savannah Star: Exactly.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yes, exactly.
Gcheung28: I can only imagine his reaction at seeing Jacob phase haha
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And when he was given something, he basically had a heart attack.
Gcheung28: hahah yup
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: A TV spot with that scene just came out, lol. Charlie's face was hysterical.
Savannah Star: I didn't see it.
Gcheung28 Hahaha! Love that. Do you think jacob should have done things any differently? Maybe not phase lol
Savannah Star: Lol, yes.
Gcheung28: @Savannah Star Any suggestions?
Savannah Star: I think he should have consulted Bella about it first, for starters. SHE should have told her dad the truth.
Gcheung28: But she probably would have said no right?
Kate.moon: hi all!
LavendaBrunette: I don't see the point in putting the Jacob transforming for Charlie scene in now that Jacob's already imprinted (in the film).
Savannah Star: @Gcheung: Probably.
Savannah Star: Hey!
Gcheung28: I think Bella would have just told Jacob that Charlie needed to wait but then that would have maybe ended up in him never knowing until hes on his death bed or something lol
Savannah Star: And lies would build on more lies.
Gcheung28: and her mom Renee actually still has no idea at this point
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think Charlie should have known all or just nothing.
Savannah Star: ^
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh god, and I was sitting here complaining that Charlie knows nothing!Renee is so out of it.
Gcheung28: Sooooo in the dark lol
LavendaBrunette: It's probably better that way.
Savannah Star: All she knows is that Bella and Edward are happily married. That's it.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Then again, it's best for Bella's parents to not know anything.
Gcheung28: Do you think the book would have been any different if Renee got involved as a concerned parent?
LavendaBrunette: But Charlie is a COP. You'd think he'd do investigating.
Gcheung28: She's a very minor character the entire time: That is true haha But he is also a cop in a small town where nothing really happens. So maybe his investigating skills were rusty
Savannah Star: ^ True.
Gcheung28: The Cullens are also really good at covering their tracks So we talked about this a little the last time but, as a father, it must have been painful for Charlie to suddenly find out about all the secrets Bella had been keeping from him. Do you think she should have tried to be honest with him from the start? Why or why not? Did you find Charlie’s reaction to Bella’s transformation credible? I think we said last time and this time that she should have been honest
Savannah Star: Yes, she should've been honest. Honesty is the best policy, after all.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think she should have been honest until things got supernatural.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think lying for good instead of evil is the way to go.
Savannah Star: ^ Yes.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: She couldn't have told Charlie way back at the beginning that she was dating a vampire.
Gcheung28:That is true haha
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: For one thing, Charlie wouldn't have believed her.
Gcheung28: Probably would have gotten sent to the insane asylum or something!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yes, exactly!
Savannah Star: Telling your dad you're dating a vampire probably won't go over well. Js.
Gcheung28: But then when she was pregnant and it seemed like the chances of her surviving were so low, I feel like she probably should have said something around that time
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think she only lied for Charlie's own good.
Gcheung28: It would have been so terrible (not like it would have happened) if she had died and Charlie only found out after the fact!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If she called Charlie and was like, "...Uh, Dad, I'm pregnant and I might die," that'd be scary. Oh, yeah.
LavendaBrunette: But don't forget that the Volturi could kill him if he knows.
Savannah Star: ^
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I remember when Jake was thinking about how well the Cullens could have faked a plane crash or a car accident. Oh yeeeeeeaaah.
LavendaBrunette: I think Bella should have been less obvious about what was going on.
Gcheung28: Good point @LavendaBrunette!
LavendaBrunette: That way he wouldn't have suspected a thing.
Savannah Star: If she'd told him from the start, Charlie's options are/were: Become a vampire, or die.
Gcheung28: So then what did you think of his actual reaction after seeing Bella as a vampire? I mean he knew that something was off with her and Renesmee, but he just took it like a champ haha
Savannah Star: Lol, yeah.
Gcheung28: It didn't seem very realistic at all!
Savannah Star: He didn't seem all that freaked out.
Gcheung28: Or maybe did you think that was fine because Charlie just seems like an accepting person?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If I were him and saw her 10 times paler, 20 times prettier, and looking like a statue, I'd still be convinced that she was sick.
LavendaBrunette: Charlie is *not* accepting, though. He never accepted Edward.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Charlie never seemed accepting before; he never accepted Edward to begin with.
Gcheung28: That's true but he kind of accepted him for Bella
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh yeah. He accepted her long depression and even slept on the couch for months.
Gcheung28: VampiresAndWerewolfsareAwesomeAsHell23 mentioned in a comment: Yes, but no at the same time, I think Charlie knew from the first day he meet Edward
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: But he'd still be concerned, in Breaking Dawn. And also because of the fact that Renesmee looks like a kid that Bella and Edward would have, because she is.
Gcheung28: In terms of whether or not Charlie's reaction was credible. It just seemed weird how he brushed it off so quickly
Savannah Star: He didn't know Edward was a vampire, but he probably knew something was different about him.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Charlie used to like the Cullens since the kids never got into trouble and Carlisle was good; I think it was just the fact that Bella was dating one (as opposed to Mike or Jacob or anyone else).
Gcheung28: So typical protective father haha
Savannah Star: Add that to the fact that in NM Edward left Bella depressed for months, Dee.
Gcheung28: It was also interesting how quickly he fell in love with Renesmee
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Haha, right. Exactly, Sav. It was. If I were him and saw this strange child that looked like Bella and Edward I'd be so freaked out.
LavendaBrunette: Ugh, Mary Sue, Jr. strikes again.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It's like he's selectively accepting. Lololol.
Savannah Star: EVERYONE seemed to love Renesmee.
Gcheung28: Maybe that's the immortal child thing coming into play, even though she's technically not a turned child. Hahah @LavendaBrunette did you not like that?
LavendaBrunette: I despise Renesmee.
Savannah Star: Same, tbh.
Gcheung28: Oh really? Why?
LavendaBrunette: She's not realistic or believable, she gets everything she wants, she's selfish and bratty, etc.
Savannah Star: ^. She has no flaws.
LavendaBrunette: She isn't at all relatable.
Savannah Star: Just like everyone else in the series, she is perfect.
LavendaBrunette: She's just like her mother.
Gcheung28: But are we supposed to be relating to Renesmee at all? She is just a kid haha. Ahh
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I can't relate to a hybrid child. And... I really don't want to, lol.
Savannah Star: Lmao
Gcheung28: Hahah I don't think I would want to either
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: But I guess this story isn't really about her. It's about Bella.
Gcheung28: True! So, Meyer suggests that Jacob imprinted on Nessie even before she was born (possibly before she was even conceived), which might explain why the bond between Jacob and Bella has always been so strong. Do you find this explanation satisfying? Does this mean that the choice Bella made between Edward and Jacob was unnecessary on some level because Jacob’s love for her wasn’t “real?”
Savannah Star: Not at all.
Gcheung28: Why is that?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think Jake imprinting was really just still his love for Bella.
Savannah Star: For one thing, you can't imprint on someone who isn't even born yet.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^. And Jake despised the child before she was born.
Savannah Star: You don't go, "I hate you" to "I love you" within a snap of your fingers.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And I totally find Jake's love for Bella real. He loved her. He just did. He accepted her, even as messed up as she was, and he never, EVER gave up.
Gcheung28: So then do you not agree that the choice Bella made between Edward and Jacob was unnecessary on some level because Jacob’s love for her wasn’t “real?”
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I don't agree.
Savannah Star: ^
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It was never really a choice; she was always going to be with Edward. But Jacob was always going to love Bella. Like.... ALWAYS.
Gcheung28: What do you guys think about imprinting in general then?
Savannah Star: Renesmee could never truly replace her.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think imprinting ruins lives. It ruined mine, lol.
Gcheung28: Hahah I'm assuming you all don't see any romance in it then
Savannah Star: Not at all.
Gcheung28: and the idea of soulmates that people compare it with?
Gcheung28: Interesting! Care to discuss it more?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: When people say imprinting's just for passing on the gene, it makes it sound like the pack can't get dates. Like... they can reproduce without having a crazy obsession with someone.
Gcheung28: True. it's also weird because it's not like the wolf pack isn't attractive haha
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Imprinting's so unnecessary. Genes will be passed on, and people will find loves. It takes away choices. EXACTLY! Hahahaha. Really.
Savannah Star: Imprinting takes away free will, in a way.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And Lavenda PM'd me, btw. She has to go.
Gcheung28: When Jacob drives off in the car, there's plenty of girls that seem into him too!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^ Yes!
Gcheung28: ok no worries. Thanks for joining, Lavenda!
Gcheung28: that's an interesting thought, Savannah!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Imprinting's wrong on both ends, because people should be loved and love people for who they are.
Savannah Star: Jacob could have found someone else, but the imprinting gene/whatever it is took that from him.
Gcheung28: So then if someone gets imprinted on and they grow up to be a horrible person, that's really terrible for the imprinter right?
Gcheung28: Because they could technically leave, but they wouldn't want to. Sad!
Savannah Star: brb
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It really is. Renesmee could lose interest in Jacob in the future (but I doubt it, since I don't think she'll ever have any friends because she won't be going to public school, most likely) but she wouldn't want to hurt him.
Gcheung28: haha that is true So were you happy for Jacob at all that he finally had a way to get over Bella or were you mostly pissed haha
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ...I think both, lol. Even as I knew that Jake would never be with Bella, I still went with it.
Gcheung28: @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt more detail?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Because if you take away all the vampires and werewolves, Bella would most definitely be with Jacob.
Gcheung28: Would she though?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think so. He's her "own personal sun."
Gcheung28: But is she really with Edward just for the vampire thing?
Gcheung28: Because she admits that she does love Jacob, she just loves Edward more lol
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Sex and immortality seemed like her deal to me.
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Ugh, I can't even with her. She loves Jacob genuinely, but she loves the idea of being beautiful more. And hello!
Nblonkenfeld: Hi everyone
Gcheung28: It was kind of interesting to read that part where she said that she felt like she was born to be a vampire Hi! So Bella said that she had felt dull before, but after becoming a vampire and changing, she seemed so much happier. But it just seemed superficial to me
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: In a way, she was.
Gcheung28: @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt ? she was born to be one?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: She was a crap excuse for a human, but then again, she really didn't try. She complained at how she wasn't musical or sporty or didn't get awards or this or that, but she didn't give much of an effort to begin with. Vampirism really is the only way she can be interesting. Nobody's born an athlete or born a musician; you have to work at it.
Gcheung28: Very true! That makes her such a sad character lol
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Haha, right? She didn't give anything. She should have just died or became a vampire. OR, even find something to be good at. It's never too late.
Gcheung28: Well, going back to Jacob really quick, and kind of the whole love triangle: Before we found out about Jacob's imprint, were you Team Edward or Team Jacob? Did those feelings change after reading about the imprint? I was also Team Jacob, but I was kind of happy that he didn't end up with Bella she just seemed like not the right person to be with jacob especially with all the pain she put him through!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Well, I think my name and things to say make my team clear. ;D
Gcheung28: hahaha very true!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: But my feelings for Jacob didn't change after he imprinted. I was just pissed at Stephenie Meyer for giving him a crap ending.
Gcheung28: Why are you team jacob?
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh boy. Okay, so.
Gcheung28: Hahah take your time!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Jake is the only character in the Saga to me that goes through change. He's one of the only relatable characters, and he's just likeable. You *want* to root for him, since he's such a good person. I want to give him a hug when he's in pain, because I can empathize with him. I totally get his motives. I get all of it. I've never come across a fictional character so relateable. And the Twilight Saga is a grotto of unrelatable fuckery. Jacob is the light that shines through it all, because he actually changes, he fights for what he wants, and he loses. I always like the losers in series, because they always seem to be the ones who tried their hardest. Edward didn't do a damn thing but be pretty. Jacob worked his ass off for Bella, and it didn't work, but he gave everything. Everything. Jacob is just.... well, Jacob. I can't *not* love him.
Gcheung28: That is an amazingly good argument for Jacob; nicely done! VampiresAndWerewolfsareAwesomeAsHell23 mentions that they are Team Switzerland
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, and one last thing: he's not perfect. That is why I love him so much. I never got Team Switzerland; is it both or neither? And thank you. I take my Team Jacobness very seriously, lol.
Gcheung28: It just means she can't choose i think. So it's just a state of indecision haha. Do you think that being Team Switzerland is understandable? Or would you just say Team Jacob hands down lol
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think Team Switzerland is somewhat understandable, because neither guy is *horrible*, but Team Jacob is just better.
Gcheung28: Hahah nice
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, crap, I have to go now. I am so sorry.
Gcheung28: Oh no worries, it was great discussing with you!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: This was great, though.
Gcheung28: Thanks for sharing
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: You, too! You're welcome! Good evening!
Gcheung28: Hopefully you can come by for the 3rd discussion too. See you!
TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I will! Haha, see ya.